MysticMag has the pleasure of chatting with Dr. Ravi Ravindra – a renowned spiritual teacher, author, and speaker, known for his profound understanding of Eastern and Western spiritual traditions. He holds degrees in Physics and Philosophy, including a Ph.D. from the University of Toronto. Ravindra has served as a professor at Dalhousie University in Halifax, Canada, specializing in Comparative Religion, Philosophy, and Physics. He has held prestigious fellowships at institutions such as the Institute of Advanced Study in Princeton and the Indian Institute of Advanced Study in Shimla. Ravindra’s spiritual journey has been deeply influenced by J. Krishnamurti, G. I. Gurdjieff, Zen, and Yoga, as well as the mystical teachings of Indian and Christian traditions. He is the author of several books on religion, science, mysticism, and spirituality, and has been featured in interviews and articles exploring his spiritual insights and experiences.
Ravi, your journey has taken you from studying physics to exploring the depths of spirituality. How did this transformation come about, and what pivotal moments or teachings influenced your path?
As a young boy, particularly from the age of 13-14 onwards, I often pondered why I was created in this body, knowing that it would not last more than 75-80 years. These questions about the nature of my existence and the forces behind my creation deeply occupied my mind. I was particularly struck by the teachings of the great sage Vivekananda in India, who emphasized these questions as central to spiritual inquiry.
However, despite this spiritual inclination, there was a societal pressure in India, especially after independence, to pursue studies in engineering or technology. Pursuing fields like philosophy or history was often looked down upon, signaling a societal attitude that pushed me towards studying technology. While nobody specifically pushed me in this direction, it was the prevailing social attitude at the time.
I ended up pursuing a Master of Technology degree, but I had a pivotal moment during a badminton match when I heard a strong inner voice questioning my purpose and existence. Feeling that technology wasn’t addressing these deeper questions, I turned to science, particularly inspired by Albert Einstein’s philosophical remarks. I decided to study physics, eventually earning a MSc and a PhD in physics in Canada. I had a post-doctoral fellowship in Physics at the University of Toronto and a year later I became an Assistant Professor in the Department of Physics at Dalhousie University in Halifax, Canada.
Despite becoming a professor of physics, I felt that physics alone couldn’t answer my existential questions. I then turned to philosophy and obtained a postdoctoral fellowship in the Philosophy Department at Princeton University. However, I found that philosophers seemed more interested in arguing with each other than in seeking deeper truths.
This led me to pursue a postdoctoral fellowship in the religion department at Columbia University. Through all these academic pursuits, I realized that most professors in these fields were not experiencing the depth of spiritual understanding that I sought. I came to understand that while science looks outward to study the external universe, true spiritual teachings require looking inward.
I began to realize that I, like everyone else, am a reflection of the whole universe internally. This understanding requires impartial self-inquiry, which can be challenging as it forces us to confront our own inner demons. This inner journey is a universal experience, as depicted in various spiritual traditions, where figures like Christ, Buddha, and others are tested by their inner obstacles or “devils.”
I came to understand that I did not create myself; rather, some spiritual energy has created my body and mind temporarily. This realization has led me to seek actions that can assist the evolution of this divine spark within me, aligning with the teachings of spiritual leaders throughout history.
You’ve had the opportunity to study and immerse yourself in various spiritual traditions. Can you share a profound teaching or experience from one of these traditions that has had a lasting impact on you?
One teaching that has had a profound impact on me is a remark of Christ from the Gospel of Matthew. He said, “Unless you leave yourself behind, you cannot be a follower of mine.” This idea is echoed in teachings from various traditions, emphasizing the need to transcend self-centeredness and ego-driven motives in favor of a deeper, more spiritual connection.
The call to be free of excessive self-focus and ego is a fundamental one, requiring a sincere exploration of what barriers or obstacles hinder this pursuit. However, it’s important to note that this call is not about being against the self or trying to eliminate it entirely. As my teacher once said, “Ego is a good servant but a bad master.” The term “ego” simply refers to the self, and it plays a necessary role in our lives.
For example, without a strong sense of self, I wouldn’t have written books, and you wouldn’t be interviewing me now. The key is to recognize that while the ego has its place, it should not be the dominant force in our lives. Instead, it should serve us, not rule over us.
In your book “Blessed by Mysterious Grace: The Journey of a Pilgrim,” you discuss encounters with notable spiritual figures. Could you share a story or insight from one of these encounters that has stayed with you?
One of the most surprising experiences I had was meeting a Zen master in South Korea named Chulloong Sunim. I had never heard of him before, and I wasn’t actively seeking him out. However, it seemed that various forces aligned to bring us together. To my surprise, during our first meeting, he insisted on giving me some money, explaining that it was for my next visit. Later, I discovered that even the President of South Korea was a disciple of his, highlighting his stature as a highly revered Zen master in the country. This encounter raised questions about the mysterious forces that guide our lives.
About a year later, I visited him again, and one thing led to another. We engaged in meditation together for over a week, and he surprised me once more by giving me an image of the Buddha from the 10th century, a valuable artifact that would cost more than $15,000 in the market. He also insisted on giving me more money, claiming that I had done something for him in a previous life, though I have no recollection of such an event. These experiences made me ponder the mysterious forces that govern the universe and our lives.
I often ask my friends, “Why were you born where you were born? What forces orchestrated this?” This contemplation leads to a profound spiritual search, as these mysterious forces are often equated with God or the ultimate reality. They are considered conscious and omnipresent, existing within and around us. This is why spiritual teachings emphasize looking inward, as the deepest self is said to be identical to the highest reality, whether it’s called God or Brahman.
While organized religions have often strayed from the core teachings, the essence of spiritual exploration remains intact. The teachings of figures like Christ, when followed sincerely, reveal profound truths. Spiritual teachings, regardless of their origin, serve as pointers to a deeper truth that must be experienced internally.
How do you see the intersection of science and spirituality, and what do you believe each discipline can learn from the other?
First and foremost, science, as I mentioned earlier, is entirely focused on the external universe. It is important to have knowledge about the world we live in. Spirituality does not oppose knowledge. However, spiritual teachings seek a different kind of knowledge—one that transforms the quality of our lives. Many great sages did not possess extensive knowledge, yet they were revered for the quality of their being. Science aims to accumulate more knowledge, whereas spiritual teachings aim to enhance the quality of our being, leading to more love, truth, compassion, and a sense of service.
Having met numerous Nobel Prize winners in science, especially in physics, which is my background, I’ve noticed that many of them lack a certain quality of being. They may be brilliant in their fields, but they may not exude qualities that you would necessarily invite for a casual tea. A well-known Nobel Prize winner in chemistry at the University of Toronto, John Polanyi, has even remarked that in the 20th century, science, particularly in association with technology, has become increasingly detached from human concerns, leading to significant harm, such as the development of nuclear bombs and other weapons.
It’s important to realize that science is not concerned with the quality of one’s being. Most physics graduates, for example, end up working either for the industry or the military, often involved in projects related to weapons development. This is why I’ve been advocating for a new approach, exemplified by the Galileo Commission, which was established about five or six years ago. The commission, comprised mainly of individuals with scientific backgrounds, questions the fundamental assumption in modern science that the ultimate reality is matter. Instead, they suggest that consciousness may be the primary reality, citing experiences like near-death experiences where consciousness persists even when the body ceases to function.
I’ve also been promoting the idea of cultivating wise scientists, as opposed to just smart scientists. Wisdom, in this context, is a delicate blend of truth and love. While intelligence and creativity are valuable traits, true wisdom includes qualities like love for truth, compassion, a sense of service, and a feeling of unity with others. This is an ongoing project for me—to encourage the development of wise scientists who can contribute positively to society and the world at large.
Your work often delves into the concept of truth and the limitations of language in expressing it. How do you approach the search for truth in your personal journey and teachings, especially considering the diverse perspectives and traditions you’ve encountered?
It’s a common theme in spiritual teachings that there are levels of reality subtler than the mind. Being solely focused on mental descriptions, as in science, philosophy, and theology, cannot lead to experiencing the highest reality, according to these teachings. This is why meditation emphasizes quieting the mind. For example, in the Yoga Sutra, a famous text from India, the first substantial sutra states, “Yoga is stopping all the movements of the mind.” This isn’t to be against the mind; the mind has its place. For instance, Christ needs to understand subject-object-predicate to convey his message.
However, there’s a strong emphasis in spiritual teachings on the limitations of language in describing subtle realities. Even great poets and scientists like Einstein suggest that intuition, a feeling that touches your heart, is the first connection with truth. The mind, while necessary for describing experiences, cannot fully grasp these subtle realities. The Buddha couldn’t describe Nirvana, and Christ likened the Kingdom of God to a mustard seed, showing the limits of language in expressing these concepts. Pascal even said, “The heart has reasons that reason does not know.”
Moreover, languages themselves create differences. Expressions in Hindi differ from those in English, adding complexity to translation. When speaking to people from different cultural backgrounds, differences in language and expression naturally arise. This leads to the diversity of expressions in religions. Unfortunately, organized religions sometimes claim a monopoly on truth, suggesting that those who don’t believe in their specific teachings are condemned. This narrow view surprises me, as it suggests that even great sages from other traditions might be suffering in hell, which seems contradictory to the essence of spiritual teachings.
It’s imortant to recognize that different religions have valuable wisdom to offer, but becoming too attached to any one religion can hinder one from experiencing the deeper truths they point to. At best, a religion can be likened to a finger pointing to the moon; if one remains attached to the finger one will never get to the moon.
If you would like to find out more about Ravi Ravindra, please visit https://ravindra.ca/
