Deborah Lukovich, Ph.D. is an in-depth psychologist, author, podcaster, and blogger. Her expertise is the study of the unconscious. After navigating her midlife unraveling and reconstruction, which paralleled an irrational desire to study depth psychology, she unleashed creatively, and now Deborah is on a mission to grow a movement of self-reflecting humans. She empowers people with a framework for self-reflection, focused on learning the unconscious language, through which the Soul reveals clues about our deepest desires.
Dr. Deborah describes herself as an accidentally funny, awkward depth psychology nerd addicted to finding meaning in ordinary life events and over-shares to encourage others to explore the deeper meaning of their lives.
Deborah’s last book Your Soul is Talking. Are You Listening? 5 Steps to Uncovering Your Hidden Purpose, combines her Jungian—based coaching framework for self-reflection with personal stories of midlife unraveling and healing wounds related to sexuality and spirituality.
Now, Deborah is publishing another more personal story. Her memoir, When Sex Meets God: A Midlife Story, is the juicy version of the dramatic story of her unexpected midlife unraveling and reconstruction, the version that wasn’t needed nor appropriate in the dissertation that led to her securing a Ph.D. in in-depth psychology.
Learn more about her in the latest MysticMag interview.
As a Depth Psychology Coach, how do you define and approach the concept of depth psychology, and how does this perspective contribute to the coaching process for individuals seeking personal growth and transformation?
Simply stated, depth psychology is the study of the unconscious, that bottomless pit of mysterious forces that influence who we are as individuals and groups, including how we think, our personality quirks, and even to whom we’re attracted. Just as scientists do not know exactly how gravity works except by studying its effects, we explore the unconscious by studying its effects on our lives.
In a world traumatized by the one-sided masculine (not man) mind-oriented approach to being human, depth psychology reunites us with the root of psychology, which is Soul and Breath. It is a spiritual psychology because as people come into deeper relationships with the juiciness of their personal unconscious, their focus naturally turns to how their unique experience of being human exists within the context of all kinds of collectives, including the entire cosmos.
The personal traumas and patterns of thinking and behaving that have stopped working begin to loosen their grip on our lives and evolve into meaningful experiences that blossom into a sense of purpose and significance that contributes to the collective of humanity. We find meaning!
As a depth psychology coach, we might start with the mind’s idea of the issue, but we quickly invite the unconscious to the discussion by exploring dreams, physical issues like illness and injury, anxiety and depression, personality type, emotional reactions, and even obsessions with movies and music. The language of the unconscious is the image, and its use of symbols and metaphors purposely frustrates the mind so that we can be freed of its defensive nature to unleash new insights from our inner world. Then we invite the mind back in to discern and plot how those insights can change our lives.
It’s a beautiful Indiana Jones-type adventure!
Can you share a specific example or case where Depth Psychology Coaching played a pivotal role in helping a client uncover and address underlying patterns or issues, leading to a significant breakthrough or transformation?
There are so many beautiful moments when after months of diligent exploration by a client they just say this thing that is so earth-shatteringly significant, but they don’t even realize it because they’ve become someone new over time.
A sixty-year-old woman who was mad at God for punishing her by making sure she couldn’t find the right romantic partner came to understand that her unconscious fear from childhood of her father leaving her had manifested as intense neediness for a romantic partner who would never be able to fill that hole. Over time, she not only was able to surrender to love and experience pleasure in a way she hadn’t been able to before, but she also confidently ended that relationship when it was clear she had learned the lessons that were preparing her for the next higher-level relationship that was out there, the one she truly yearned for.
A woman in her forties who had finally escaped an abusive marriage suddenly realized that everything she thought was true was not true. Her task was to come into a relationship with the Self, which CG Jung, one of the founders of depth psychology, said is an ordering principle that prompts psychological and spiritual growth. She ended up reconnecting with a male friend who became her romantic partner, and their mutual vulnerability sparked more insights that strengthened her sense of worth. And then, there was the inevitable red flag moment that made her panic. It was a dream about ferrets that helped her realize that her comfort with being herself at the beginning of the relationship had evolved into a neediness and fear about the relationship ending. We found a truth and a paradox about relationships, the less we need a relationship to last, the longer it is likely to last. This was a mind-blowing realization for my client and the basis for what became my 3P’s Relationship framework.
There are so many more stories!
In the context of Depth Psychology Coaching, how do you guide clients in exploring and integrating unconscious aspects of their psyche, and how does this exploration contribute to their self-awareness and overall well-being?
I begin with the humble knowledge that I am presented with the clients that ensure mutual transformation. I am more of a witness than a guide. I allow my own Self, which is the bridge to the transcendent (God, nature, quantum realm, etc.), to guide the session, which is a container or a vessel for an alchemical process. The only agenda is to resist the temptation to stay in the mind, and instead move quickly to exploring images (impressions) offered by dreams or other means the unconscious uses to communicate.
In most cases, we will enter the space of active imagination towards the end of the session to allow the unconscious to lead us to new insights. It’s as if we are being pulled into the potential future, and my surrender allows me to anticipate a second or two ahead. That’s when I’m a guide. The insights gained through this process in every case come faster than they would by staying in the mind. Together, we accept that the root of “knowing” is to relate, which cannot happen solely by the mind, but must include the body. The language of the unconscious is how the Soul speaks. Often, there are tears, which not only indicate a physical detoxification process, but tears also indicate a shift in the Soul, which sometimes is felt as a numinous and religious experience. This is a real transformation.
What techniques or methodologies do you employ in Depth Psychology Coaching to assist clients in navigating the complexities of their inner world, fostering a deeper understanding of themselves and their life experiences?
The overarching framework of depth psychology coaching is individuation, which CG Jung used to describe the process of coming into a deeper relationship with the unconscious. The most common tools I use with clients are exploring dream images, understanding what’s beneath the surface of relationships, and active imagination.
Exploring dreams requires discovering associations we have with certain images and finding the metaphor in our waking life. For example, as my life was beginning to fall apart in midlife, a dream about my teeth falling out of my mouth was not about the obviousness that my life was falling apart, but rather that I needed to let my life to fall apart. Dreams are forward looking and the most challenging part for clients is to not take them literally. Dreams with sexual imagery and those that involve intimacy with forbidden people are often the psyche’s way of bringing attention to parts of us that want to be expressed or unleashed but are held back by feelings of shame or limiting beliefs.
My 3P’s framework for understanding the deeper meaning of relationships, especially those of a romantic nature, includes accepting that the deeper purpose of all relationships is to prompt growth, that we relate to others and ourselves through projection, and that the goal of permanence works against the relationship in terms of longevity and fulfillment.
Finally, prioritizing active imagination ensures the unconscious is part of the discussion during our sessions. After breath work and checking in with the body and mind, we might slip into part of a dream and allow the imagination to bring even more images that once explored offer clues to moving forward. The ah-ha moments can be striking and significant, resulting in a tearful shifting of soul. Active imagination also allows my clients who are experiencing intense anxiety to explore the deeper meaning of the anxiety by allowing it to take shape as an image and move out of the body to get some distance from it. Many clients feel immediate relief from anxiety for the rest of the day and sometimes weeks
How do you balance the exploration of past experiences and the focus on present goals in Depth Psychology Coaching, and how does this dual perspective contribute to the overall effectiveness of the coaching process?
By following the lead of the unconscious of course, which embodies the meandering style of the feminine (not woman). A client may begin the session with a list of items to discuss, but beneath the mind’s defensive agenda, we seek for what really wants to be explored. As I listen to the client and note their body language, I may ask them to wonder about something they just said, and then ask about the first time they remember feeling that way. A depth psychological approach values looking back because there is something from the past that is relevant to a situation the client finds themselves in currently. Why is something asking to be explored now? This is the reason to reach back and pull forward. The ointment or salve requires a little piece of the wound as they say, but the reason for reaching back is not to re-experience the original event but to find the insight needed to be pulled forward by the Self for the purpose of the client unfolding into the next version of themselves. We all are experts at our unique experience of being human, and the new meaning we may find in our past experiences contributes to a new sense of purpose and contribution to the collective that only we can make.
In your practice, how do you collaborate with clients to create a safe and supportive space for exploring deep psychological themes, and how do you empower them to take meaningful steps toward personal transformation and fulfillment?
As CG Jung suggested, effective therapy requires that the analyst also be transformed. This implies a collaborative relationship from the beginning. Offering services virtually ensures my clients can create a personal sacred space, which might include lit candles, meaningful trinkets, a favorite aroma, and even a special room in their home. My genuine curiosity and excitement about their juicy lives and journey contributes to their trust in me, especially when I call on my intuition to challenge them to follow through on something outside of our sessions. My openness to receiving their spontaneous texts telling me about success is one way I offer support between sessions, and my unique email coaching service means I’m available at random times to support them and offer resources as challenges come up. Finally, including the body and breath during the session and recommending that my clients engage in movement following our sessions contributes to that deeper level of knowing that is required for true transformation. Written and/or image journaling is also something that some brave clients can do, and this can accelerate their journey.
